Recruits Bailing on Program

Oh, this is normal? Please give me an example of 6 guys transferring and decommitting from a single institution at either USF, SMC, LMU, Pepperdine, BYU or Gonzaga over the past 2 recruiting classes.

You think it’s about playing time? That sounds like a rationalization minus a quote from this who transferred. Please explain how bad are these recruits if they cannot contribute minutes. Was the drop off that severe? No. It’s not like you are talking about sitting Steph Curry, Kevin Dirrsnt and Draymond Green.

And tell me why a team that isn’t competitive in half it’s games can’t use its bench more to develop the future roster.

You’re apparently completely clueless.

Sendek literally wrote a book about it.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/herb-sendek-book-arizona-state-transfer-epidemic-dick-vitale-jeff-goodman-tad-boyle/yv6l0hwr8mr819aea2vchlali

Relying on the verbal commit.com website, I can only find one, single player transferring from Pacific to Oklahoma. No other West Coast Conference team indicates a transfer.

And a decommit has nothing to do with playing time..

You can rationalize all you want, but this is not normal for Santa Clara.

It’s normal for the whole country. 

And yes a decommit can definitely have to do with a recruit’s perception of where they fit in with the recruiting class and the roster. Honestly, Silverio would have been like the 5th guard, he’s probably doing a smart thing. 

Did not notice that Miles Reynolds transferred from Pacific to Oklahoma until you mentioned it. Big loss for Pacific. He was easily their best or second best player.

Can’t really blame Sendek for Lockley or Lewis. Lockley was not his recruit and averaged 3pts per game at Kennesaw State this year. Lewis was not his recruit either but maybe he could have contributed at some point.

Roche and Douglas were both late spring adds after he was hired so it is almost like the staff took a flyer on them and it did not work out. Douglas went D2 and I imagine Roche does the same. But one could at least argue Sendek and staff should have evaluated better or at least just held on to the scholarships until something else came along. 

Turner is a bit concerning because Sendek spoke highly of him and he appeared to be well regarded. He was disappointing this year but as only a freshman I had not given up on him yet. Liked the tape on Silverio and definitely wanted him on campus but certainly not a can’t miss prospect.

This off-season will ultimately be judged by the 6 new guys we get on campus. We have not really lost anyone I expected to contribute next season but we definitely have to start re-stocking/developing the pipeline for life after KJ and Hauser. Wertz  needs to be an All WCC type talent, Eaddy needs to be a 10 ppg guy, Vrankic needs to fill out, and we need the 3 remaining scholarships to provide an upgrade in length, size, and athleticism. Right now I am viewing this through the rose colored glasses of it being an opportunity to accelerate the turnaround…….but also understanding that Year 3 is very critical in making sure things are headed in the proper direction under Sendek. 

Unfortunately, this is the way kids of this generation does things.  No one wants to battle for competition anymore.  There’s not much competitive edge/nature within them.

Very rarely will you see kids playing p/u ball anymore….  You don’t see them playing against older kids either.  Most will be holdbacks and playing against younger kids and build their rep….  Now you get to college and most aren’t ready to deal with the physicality of others.

They’re also used to things being handed to them and when that doesn’t happen or they don’t get there way…..  They bolt for what they seem to think are greener pastures….  Out of the vast majority of transfers, there are not many that transfer to a bigger school and make a big impact…..

A kid on the University of Colorado football team just transferred after a promising first season in which he played in 7 games, to attend lower level Montana State. In high school, he spent his first two seasons at Glenwood Springs- a relatively rural high school between roughly Vail and Aspen (but much more blue collar). He transferred to a Denver metro public school, Pomona High School, and then to another, ostensibly their rival, Cherry Creek- the biggest, most storied HS program in the state, where he ultimately played his junior year. Apparently dissatisfied with his 3rd high school in only a  handful of months, he transferred to the IMG Academy in Florida. Then to the University of Colorado, now off to Montana State. He even showed up for a few weeks of fall camp at CU. 

Such an HS career was unthinkable barring a father in the military not ever a decade ago. Now its common. The kid has the talent and size to potentially play in the NFL… but given his peripatetic nature so far life, one would imagine he won’t like the team he ultimately makes it to… 

It’s all crazy, and I have to imagine the kids aren’t doing it all on their own- I’m sure there’s parents and personal coaches whispering in ears too. 

If you can play, they’ll find you. Might have been the sulfur baths in Glenwood Springs messed up his mind.

Sendak wrote a book? Then I must be wrong, right? Or, did he bring this “epidemic” with him?

The book was written in 2008. One decade ago. Care to share how many SCU players transferred in the past decade, sans 2017-2018?

“Percentage of players transferring from one four-year school to another increased from 9.4 in 2003-04 to 13.8 in 2013-14, according to Sports Illustrated and the NCAA. That represents a 47 percent increase. The figure dipped slightly last year.” https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/11/07/college-basketball-transfers-arent-new-but-players-and-coaches-cope-increase/686784001/

Sendak is has lost six transfers which he signed the past two years. Only 13 players are scholarship, one walk-on. Losing three a year is far in excess of NCAA average. 2017 saw 689 D1 players transfer, of which 132 were grad transfer, like Caruso. So only 557 transferred and there are 323 D1 teams. 240 of the 323 teams had fewer transfers. I could not determine how many of those teams suffering higher transfer rates were due to coaching changes.

Keep in mind that Sendak is not recruiting the 3, 4 or 5 star recruit with higher expectations. He is theoretically recruiting student-scholars who valued SCU academics, and don’t have delusions of NBA careers or March Madness invites. I would have to imagine those kids have higher expectations and are more easily disappointed at playing time and roster battles.

That is not SCU, but for some reason we are experiencing twice the D1 average. Again, I didn’t write the book, but there is nothing average about SCU and the WCC. Sendak is an outlier in our conference. You can rationalize all you want.

BroncWatcher – Hobart and Sendak’s book actually draws a different conclusion about this generation. They argue that it is a common myth about Gen Y kids being entitled, disloyal and disengaged. They argue the young are displaying “tremendous accountability, taking control of their careers…looking for constant development.” – per the 2014 Sporting News article that second year provided the link to earlier, “Arizona State coach Sendak throws the book at alleged transfer ‘epidemic.’”

I have not read the book nor care what he or anyone else says.  I am speaking on what I see and my perception…  Doesn’t make it right and doesn’t make it wrong……

I am merely speaking in terms of what I have actually seen on the HS level, AAU circuit and college.

Yes, there 323 D1 teams, but very rarely will you hear of a kid transferring from Duke, NC, Kentucky or any other big named school.  And you are dreaming if you don’t believe these kids have a thought of possibly making it to the NBA, no matter what school they attend.  Ask any mid-major player and the 1st person they will mention is Lillard and then McCallum…  They’ll say they came from a small school and made it, so why can’t I????

They have a thought in their head that they’re that good to help turn a program around and figure they can come to this school and get time right away, because I’m just that good.

It’s not until they get to the campus and find that this isn’t small school HS…  This isn’t AAU where you can just go do what you want….  When they see they can’t grasp the scheme…  When they see that the kid that is in front of you that didn’t do much the year before, is still stronger than you and understand what the coach wants vs you unable to p/u the scheme….  That’s when that kid finds himself saying, the coach doesn’t like me…  The coach won’t give me a chance…  The coach expects me to learn this offense and know all the options to the offense as well…..

I’ll just go here and do this or that…..

BTW…  I know this to be a fact for some of the kids that have recently left….  A few could not grasp the scheme.  No matter how it was broken down or not…  You can have all the skill in the world, but if you can’t run your part of the play while the other 4 are……

But again, this is JMO…  I’m sure all of these experts on this site have the correct answer…..

no, but we do have just one screen name (not 6 or 7 and growing???)

You’re so paranoid for some reason to even have that thought in your mind is insane…

I’ve said it before and i’ll day it again…. I’m not hard to find…. I don’t hide from anyone…

I’ve stated, posted and whatever else under the same handle, title, screen name or whatever you want to call it.

Open invitation since you know sooo much about who I am and all… year and still as accessible as I am, never has anyone come to me and said anything….

I saw your little jab when someone new posted something the other day…. who has time to sign in with this and post and then sign in with that and post….

I could see if I we’re scared or afraid to say or respond to anything…. but you nor anyone else on here scares me. I fight my own battles against anyone. I stand by what I say and/or post….

And if anyone does have multiple screen names… who really cares??? It’s a posting of opinion site. you and 92bronco sound similar…. IDGAS….. both are entitled to their opinion even if it is 2 sides of 1 person…. I just don’t care that much…. but for you it seems like that’s your position in this site…. XYZ doesn’t agree with me so they must be another screen name for broncowatcher….

Believe me sir…. I don’t have time for that.

I think it’s ok for everyone in here to have a diff opinion than the other. It doesn’t make anyone right/wrong… but sparks debate and gives other a diff way of looking at things…. why can’t it just be that instead of accusations on every trip of the train….

Betterer = 92bronc??? Guessing Betterer is deeply offended by that statement :).
Watcher- I know you’re newish, I believe arriving w/ KJ but over the years betterer and I have rarely agreed on much though I guess of late during Sendek’s tenure we’ve agreed more often.
And frankly i’m not sure what betterer’s beef is with you but carry on and keep posting. I appreciate some of the incites and inside info you provide.

“Yes, there 323 D1 teams, but very rarely will you hear of a kid transferring from Duke, NC, Kentucky or any other big named school.”

Haha Kentucky has had two guys announce transfers so far this off-season.

Talk about removing all doubt that you don’t know what you’re talking about…

BroncoWatcher provides some insight when he shared:

“BTW…  I know this to be a fact for some of the kids that have recently left….  A few could not grasp the scheme.  No matter how it was broken down or not…  You can have all the skill in the world, but if you can’t run your part of the play while the other 4 are……”

A few could not grasp the scheme…

How are we supposed to interpret that?  It sounds like a shortcoming of Sendak’s staff recruiting.  Why are they investigating the basketball IQ and game acumen of these kids.

It does not suggest some entitled brat who thinks he is the next McCullum or Lilliard.  How many of these transfers are upward or lateral, and how many are to an even lower level of basketball?  

Seems like you’ve already decided how to interpret it. 

If JUCOs at Arizona State can play for Sendek, I don’t think “grasping the scheme” is really the problem. Not working hard enough to…maybe. Not having the ability to keep up…also maybe. 

@92Bronc – not a dig on you, just an example.  You’ve been straight up in disagreements and I respect that.

@secondyear – you take things so literal….  Sure there has been transfers from these big schools, but not as much as the smaller schools was my point…  and most from a smaller school very rarely transfers to a big school especially when it’s not a grad transfer.  (let me also say that is not 100%) But it’s evident no one knows anything about bball but you, in your mind.

@cadmus – Could be a short coming of the staff or it could be you only saw a kid when he had a good game…  Could be that you took stock in the highlight tape when it only shows the good plays.  Could be that he has great athletic ability but a low bball IQ.  Specifically what that statement means is some of the recent departures didn’t know what play to run when called….  You are taking things literal as well.  Not every kid thinks he will make the NBA but I am willing to bet it’s a lot higher percentage than you perceive.  As for transfers upward or lateral….  I don’t have those #s, but lets take a look at those that have left and see: (from VC current roster for SCU)

Stephen Edwards – Dismissed from Team at Tarleton State

Evan Wardlow – Supposed to be Northridge but I hear that has changed since the coach was let go

Akil Douglas – Clark Atlanta

Matt Hubbard – Cal Baptist

Evan Crawford – Not playing

Bryson Lockley – Kennisaw St

Tony Lewis – Blinn JC

Matt Turner – ???

Julian Roche – ???

Lateral or Lower level???

You do know there a kids that play basketball and there are kids that are basketball players right?

Don’t put your foot in your mouth and then blame someone else for calling you on it. Just makes you look even worse than your original out-of-sorts statement. And there have been many other big school transfers. It’s all quite common, to the point that some coaches call it an epidemic, like it’s some kind of disease. It’s not. It’s just young men doing what they think is the best for themselves. Sometimes they’re right, and sometimes they’re not — no different from other forks in a road.

Looks from that list like the reason for transfers is more a lack of skill and/or effort rather than a lack of ability to “grasp”, bc no one at the same level that supposedly runs a simpler offense (let’s assume that’s true even though it’s probably not) wanted them either — tbd on Turner, ofc. Only one of those that’s even D1 is Kennesaw and they’re on the tail end of D1.

Once again, there you are hanging on every word… No one said every kid transferred because they couldn’t grasp what was happening or going on….  In some cases it wasn’t the kids choice to leave…..

Good thing about all of this is, I know how to agree to disagree especially when the other party has all the answers to every situation.

+1 Sierra
The Hut…was in town a couple times this Fall and visited campus. Walked by The Hut…dark inside, dusty windows, paint starting to peel…sad, a punch to the gut. A ton of good memories in that place, hope it is somehow revived.

SierraBronco, it’s true, this is only college hoops, and unfortunately the Hut is closed. We paid full retail for our oldest son, too. He is grateful for his experience – great courses, great friends, possible future wife, great job…the only regret would be his love for college athletics had to be vicariously experienced enjoying other programs. Back in the day, some of my fondest memories were Saturday tailgates at SCU-SMC football games, or a road trip and weekend at the Cal Poly football game with my roommates. I’m from the Kurt Rambis and Nick Vanos era. We weren’t Stanford or Cal, but the Broncos were competitive. That is fun for a student and part of a shared experience that unites large swaths of the student body. The university acknowledged as much. I don’t have to explain this to anyone on wakeupswig. You all know the administration made a big commitment to elevate our sports programs to national prominence. If this proves futile, the athletic department cannot go back to that well again and ask for more money. If this is the ROI, the trustees will say forget it. That is my concern.

+1 Sierra… 

Also, i think i heard some rumblings that the Hut may be coming back… but i haven’t found anything to confirm that. 

On Feb. 9th this was posted in the SCU Young Alumni FB Page

“THIS JUST IN: Bronco parents Casey O’Connor and Tim Long are giving a Bronco landmark a new lease on life — literally. They have signed a lease for the space that was home to The Hut for decades, with plans to begin a new era with a new tradition — great food. Construction on their new restaurant will begin as early as next week. Casey and Tim are the fathers of Bronco Baseball alumni Ian O’Connor ’06 and Matt Long ’06. Stay tuned in the next weeks for details!”

So perhaps it is on its way back. lack of food was a major downside when it was open in my opinion… 

Not sure I would have eaten anything prepared at the Hut. The carpet alone was a bacterial cesspool.

I do miss the lunches at Lord John’s tho’. 

Lack of food never deterred my attendance at The Hut….maybe that’s just me.

same here… in my day if you got hungry at the hut you just walked a few paces to dos pesos for some eats and then back to the hut

Yeah it’s a real puzzle why a kid would want to go to Princeton.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=ca

Who from this list above Richards is from the Bay Area and should have gone to SCU but didn’t? I don’t see many.

From that whole list Dylan Belquist (Going to USF, from Los Gatos), Jake Wojcik (Going to Siena-possible father connection), Garrett Pascoe (Going to Boston U), Zach Chappell (Going to SJSU and very talented) are all viable options. And there’s also talent in the Bay Area that’s not ranked that can be given a chance.

Belquist and Wojcik play the same position as Wertz. He already chased one guy out before he even got here. One does wonder if Wojcik will be looking elsewhere now after the controversy with Patsos, though.

I imagine Pascoe is going to Boston U as opposed to a good basketball school for a reason. Looks like his only offer.

San Jose State = Mountain West. Nuff said there, even if he is good enough to play, which he might not be. Guard positions look pretty loaded for SCU, again, already ran one kid out before he even got started. 

Bigs are the clear need, hence the focus on Richards. Wilson was a very early commit to Oregon State. Not sure he’s that level but whatever — maybe he’ll bounce back.

Topalovic is a very well-chosen target. Would be hard to do better for next year than him.

2ndyear-
Can you elaborate on your point re: the Mountain West? Not sure i’m following what you’re eluding to.

Mountain West > West Coast Conference.

It’s not hard.

Unfortunately, Topalovic is going to Utah. Whaddya gonna do. 

I wasn’t trying to say that these guys fit but that there is an abundance of talent in the Bay Area that SCU does not tap into. Also even though it says Wojcik is a SG he plays PG and has the talent for it. And I can assure you Chappell is the real deal even though it may not be apparent from his offers.

You might be right and might be wrong, but it’s immaterial bc he’s going to a program in a better conference, albeit a terrible one. If he’s good, he should have plenty of chance to show it there, that’s for sure. 

Yeah I understand MWC is better than WCC but SJ St is and almost always has been terrible, limited facilities and resources, coaching turnstile, no fan base, etc. mitigating whatever advantage/benefit to a player of playing in the MWC.

To TheStat’s point….by comparison USF has ~6 guys +- from the greater Bay Area, all recruited by Smith in his 2yrs there including starters and/or major minutes guys Ferrari, Ratinho, Boum….and w/ more success on the court than us the past 2 seasons.

That said, top priority is to get the best talent you can that fits the program and school regardless of where they’re from but it’s still ideal to recruit your own back yard at least a little bit particularly when you’re situated in one of the largest metro areas in the country.

If they’ve had more success on the court isn’t that because your previous coach left a trashed program? Pretty stupid to blame your current coach for that.

Your “largest metro” isn’t exactly known for prep sports. If you aspire to be middling like USF well then whatever. You probably hired the wrong coach.

“More success” = a grand total of one more conference win in two seasons. That’s practically a rounding error. If you’re limited to local talent, you have a ceiling that is imposed by that. You don’t see Gonzaga trying to make it with just player from Washington state, do you?

“all recruited by Smith”

False. Ferrari was a junior, so this couldn’t be true.

One more thing on this, in the 3 previous years (the 3 past seasons for the senior class each coach inherited) before Smith and Sendek took over their respective programs, here are the conference records of the two.

USF 28-26
SCU 20-34

Looks like only being one game behind in the last two years is pretty significant progress, considering the state of the roster when Sendek arrived (1 decent upperclassman, garbo junior class). You can’t turn a program like SCU around overnight; you don’t have the shortcuts you might have some other places.

SCU doesn’t have the draw that Gonzaga does, they get elite players, so SCU has to look more in their backyard. If SCU could consistently get talent from other places I would commend them but they have a problem with doing that hence why they should prioritize the Bay Area and the surrounding environs.

I just don’t see this big groundswell of talent. Even guys that are 2nd team all metro are looking like they might not be D-I. There’s no one taller than 6-6 on any of the all metro teams, and size is what the program needs. 

Looking at last year’s all metro, I don’t see any misses there. There have been 2 fourth-teamers that went D3 in the last 4 years (maybe more, I recognized two). Come on. And again, very little height. More guards are not what is needed. 

I’m with secondyear on this one. In an ideal world, SCU gets the next Rambis from down the block and he simultaneously elevates the program and brings in his local fanbase. But the first part is way more important than the second. Keating tried this: MacArtur, Niyi, and Big Rob we’re all well-regarded local recruits and whether it was lack of development or they couldn’t make the college transition, the program certainly wasn’t elevated and local interest wasn’t increased ultimately. Certainly preference local players to non-local all else being equal, but SCU shouldn’t bet on some scrappy local kid if it means passing on the clearly better Texan or Norwegian or whatever. Local recruits only = local interest if it coincides with good basketball.

All that said, I’m sad that Souley Boum is at USF and not SCU. If there’s a local recruit that we should have worked for, it’s him. But I’m sure Matt Turner seemed like a way better prospect at the time.

The NorCal clash rosters seem to be a better indicator of talent. Big guys that SCU would have a shot at on that list include Jay Allen-Tovar and Elias King. And I’m not saying to pass on talent elsewhere if we can get it. I’m saying that SCU doesn’t really attract a lot of great talent from elsewhere so why not look home.

Patty- spot on. Boum would have been preferrable to Turner. Plus Ratinho over say Douglas the year prior.

2ndyr-
Ferrari IS a Smith recruit. Ferrari attended USF and made the team as a walk-on 3 yrs ago. If left the school and program after one season (prob dislike Walters like other players). He sat out a year. Smith recruited back to USF after he was hired thus a Smith recruit.

Records…the entire season matters not just conference records. There are easy comparisons in non-conference….both USF and SCU played Nevada….we got blown out, USF upset them. In order to elevate the program to greater respectability and regular 20+ wins, maybe NIT consideration then you have to win throughout the year including non-conference. Clearly USF has had 2 better seasons than us. And Smith did not inherit more talent, more like less in both quality and quantity. Smith Inherited 5 players including:
-Boyce, 1 season, 11pts/game, decent player maybe a bit better than Hauser.
-Foster, 2 seasons, 10-11 pts/game, more or less the same as Huaser.
-McCarthy and Renfro, will be 3 seasons each, both are decent and regular staters this season but not all-league caliber. McCarthy isn’t as good as Kratch, Renfro is athletic but limited offensively, similar to Pugh.
-5th guy is a guard who rarely plays, forgot his name.
Smith did not inherit any talent of the quality of Brownridge or Feagin. No all-league players amongst the group.
But Smith has recruited better the first 2 years with none of his recruits leaving to date (though I think there’s a 50/50 chance one of the posts he’s recruited leaves as they have a lot of bodies and they aren’t all going to get PT).

6 of the bottom 7 schools have made new hires in the past 2+ yrs and all are trying to become relevant. But there will always be lower tier teams that struggle and there’s only room for maybe 1 or 2 teams to elevate to BYU/SMC territory. USF has sort of taken the lead in the arms race. One could have said the same for USD but Lamont Smith’s departure destabilizes their situation so it’s unclear if they’ll be all to continue or build upon their success last season.

It is early in the Sendek rebuild, there is certainly time and opportunity to catch and pass USF and USD but clearly it’s been a slower turnaround for us. That puts more pressure on the incoming ‘18 recruiting class plus Eaddy to fulfill the hype and promise and in the case of Wertz to step in to a starting roles immediately. And while i expect Eaddy to be solid, can he replace KJ’s production after KJ graduates? The Mitchell signing is promising but we still need more. Looking forward to the 19/20 season we have Vrankic, Mitchell, Eaddy and Wertz in terms of guys you can have some confidence in now. Others like Walters, Richards, maybe Justice will need to develop. Need 7-8 consistent players you can count on plus a couple of reliable role players.

Looks like we found a closet USF fan.

I am not here to discuss USF ad nauseum. It’s clear that in the apples to apples conference play comparison (and no, non-conference doesn’t really matter, it ain’t like you’re gonna get an at-large NCAA bid or even likely an NIT one), USF was a lot better and now they’re basically the same, even in the midst of constant wailing from this board. 

I’d be willing to bet that Sendek doesn’t spend 1 second thinking about USF except when they’re next on the schedule.